Welcome to an explorative dive into the world of interspirituality through the lens of Dr. Kurt Johnson’s work, hosted by MysticMag, where the fusion of spiritual traditions and modern realities paves the way for universal dialogue.
As we delve into the transformative journey from Brother Wayne Teasdale’s “The Mystic Heart” to “The Coming Interspiritual Age,” we uncover the profound influence of interfaith conversations and their critical role in shaping a future where unity and diversity coexist harmoniously.
Join us as we explore the insights and implications of these groundbreaking works, highlighting the pivotal moments and key figures that have championed this evolution towards a globally embraced spirituality. This discussion not only reflects on the past milestones but also sets the stage for ongoing and future endeavors in the inter-spiritual movement.
Can you describe the journey from Brother Wayne Teasdale’s “The Mystic Heart” to the development of “The Coming Interspiritual Age”? What inspired this progression?
Yes, thank you. Please note that, below, I’ll answer this first question at more length, with much shorter answers thereafter.
This is because understanding our world’s progression toward interfaith and inter-spiritual understandings is core to this entire discussion– and so key to the future of our world. In the future people will either get along well with each other– or they won’t– and that will make a huge difference in our world’s situation.
Most generally, this progression was a reflection of what had been unfolding worldwide, for decades, in the relationships among the world’s spiritual traditions. Especially during the 1970s and 80s, global spiritual leaders, and the wider global media (books, magazines, radio, television) were regularly informing the global public about the world’s varied spiritual understandings [our world’s “Wisdom Resources” Br. Teasdale called it]–all represented across our globe’s diverse spiritual traditions. Books like Br. Teasdale’s, which was subtitled “Discovering a Universal Spirituality in the World’s Religions”, began emerging in the 1990s, as I’ll say more about immediately below.
In hindsight, this explosion of communication is often called the “East/West Conversation” (between Eastern and Western spiritual heritages) and the “North/South Conversation” (between the spiritual traditions of the so-called “lst World” and those of Indigenous Peoples’ [our actual “First Peoples”’]. This era also followed on the global door that had been opened by the Catholic Church’s outreach to the other world traditions universally known as “Vatican II” (aka 2nd Vatican Council, 1962-65) and the resulting “Foundational Discussion” among all the world’s traditions about “what they had in common”.
Earlier, in the 1960s too, the world’s popular literature and music reflected “East coming West”— the Beatles (and many others) and such best-selling writers as Herman Hesse and J. D. Salinger, the “Beat Poets” etc.—all communicated elements of our internal, spiritual, lives. We sometimes forget all these connections. These were all part of the prolific era of Interfaith conversation (about the varied ideas and worldviews of the world’s spiritual traditions) and then the Interspiritual conversation (about what they shared in common in the world of values, the world of the Heart, and the Mystical) (see https://www.interspirituality.com/).
This was the background upon which persons like Thomas Merton, Wayne Teasdale, Bede Griffiths, Thomas Keating, Thich Nhat Hanh, Raymond Panikkar, Matthew Fox, and so many others, were all widely read voices. Even before that time of regular magazines and books the global “Monastic Inter-religious Dialogue” had been conducted using old mimeograph machines—when both Wayne Teasdale and I, were monks.
Notice there are no women In the list above, and I’ll say more about that below.
After Br. Teasdale’s book, the progression to the book The Coming Interspiritual Age (http://www.thecominginterspiritualage.com/) resulted primarily from two factors.
First, the global dialogues above resulted in the “9 Points of Agreement Among the World’s Religions” which evolved into Br. Teasdale’s “9 Elements of a Universal Spirituality” (see pp. 16 & 22 in https://issuu.com/lightonlight/docs/universal_principles_and_action_steps). Teasdale simply asked “If we agreed on these 9 Agreements about ideas, how then should we behave? The fact that he emphasized how we behave was the hallmark of true Interspirituality—that is not what you claim to be true, in the world of ideas, that is important, but how you behave re: love, compassion, and all the core values of the world’s spiritual traditions. These latter are about partnership and cooperation, not about domination, abuse, and conflict. Sadly the latter are often done in the name of religion. And, that is why I have not used the word “religion” in my commentary above.
What is important is our spirituality, not our religion. That is why Br. Teasdale said, “The only viable religion for the Third Millennium is spirituality itself”. Soon after The Mystic Heart, Br. Teasdale was passing away of cancer and, during his last years, communicated with many of us who were close to him what needed to go into future books, that he would not be able to write.
Second, the publisher of The Coming Interspiritual Age – Namaste—had published the best-seller by Eckhart Tolle—A New Earth. My co-author, David Robert Ord had been an editor of that book. Namaste asked us—A New Earth is full of inspiring ideas but its purpose was not necessarily to provide data that, worldwide, those inspiring trends are actually happening. Could you do that? That helps answer the next question you ask below.
But, before that, it’s important to recognize that the history I related above is much influenced by the cultures of that time wherein, in so many religions, women were, sadly, often not allowed prominence. This is counter to true spirituality, of course, which is gender balanced– a realization that began manifesting in many religions, thankfully, soon after this period, and hopefully will manifest more and more in the future. Male dominance is simply a result of the Dominance Paradigms that control most of our current world.
How do you and David Robert Ord integrate modern scientific discoveries with spiritual heritages in your elaboration of interspirituality?
Along with what I noted above, most of us know of the progression, across these same decades, of what advances in science were also telling us about spirituality. As you know, along with my background in comparative religion I also have PhD in science (in evolution and ecology).
The “New Physics”– quantum theory, string theory, etc.—have especially helped us understand “the subtle realms”, the whole dimension of the mystical, and unity consciousness (the “beatific vision”) that everything is profoundly inter-connected, all made of the “same stuff” and, thus, nothing is separate—there is no “other”. This profoundly influences, or should, how we behave. This is not only true of physics, but also of the life sciences, We now understand Ecospirituality, the care of our sacred planet as a “super-organism—Gaia—and the importance of sustainable, regenerative, renewable, and “green” cultural values and lifestyles. This is all part of the paradigm shift currently going on in the world, and it must succeed if we are to survive.
Also stressed were the discoveries of Consciousness Studies– all that science has learned about consciousness and the relation of our nervous systems to spiritual practice (in such things as meditation, yoga, holistic health, and so on). All of these are parts of science’s own unfolding of a “Unitive Narrative” (https://sdgthoughtleaderscircle.org/unitive-new-narrative/).
Science today also understands today how “goodness” (altruism) evolves, and that the old Darwinian view of “natural selection”– as only “survival of the fittest” through competition”– was seriously flawed, leading to so many negatives for our species through competition, conflict and exploitation. Science understands today that, in complex systems like human cultures, “fitness” is all about cooperation. Natural process that goes on in complex systems is called “group” and “multi-level” selection, and— guess what— it always selects for “the good of the whole”. Let’s hope this recent change in scientific understanding didn’t occur too late to save us from our addiction to competition, exploitation, and conflict.
What are some key insights or concepts from your upcoming volumes, “Interspirituality: the Heritage” and “Interspirituality: the Future”?
Our goal is to make clear that the process of our deepening understanding of all the world’s spiritual traditions is here to stay. If not, we are in deep trouble—with a future of conflict upon conflict. We need to remember the words of the famous theologian Hans Küng on the founding of the United Nations: “There can be no peace among the nations until there is peace among the religions”. Accordingly, we present a deep anchoring in this realization that loving relationships among all of our planet’s religions are paramount. The Heritage volume will be full of well-known, influential, voices who have pioneered this interfaith and interspiritual view for many decades.
Interspirituality: The Future will feature many new voices, international and intergenerational, along with well-known voices (including scientists), all painting a picture of an interfaith and inter-spiritual world future that would “work for all”.
Interfaith and interspirituality do not mean uniformity; they call on the rich diversity of all our world’s spiritual traditions to be real Wisdom Resources– examples of “prosocial” (not antisocial) behavior, that is. loving behavior. Interfaith and interspirituality are not intended to be “ism’s” or religions themselves but simply the movement of truly loving behavior within all religions. It celebrates diversity.
Could you discuss the significance of the anniversaries of both “The Mystic Heart” and “The Coming Interspiritual Age” for the interspiritual movement?
This has resulted simply because, at a time when our world is so seriously challenged with division and conflict, we remember it was 25 years ago that Br. Teasdale wrote The Mystic Heart with the call to the high values I have outlined above. And, if we understand “Awakening” as the state of high consciousness realizing that everything is profoundly inter-connected, there is no “other”, and love must reign, we understand Br. Teasdale’s words “We must understand, at the most elemental level, that the definitive revolution is the Awakening of humankind”.
It also simply happened to be the 10th anniversary of my book The Coming Interspiritual Age, which to a great extent was a follow-up book to Br. Teasdale’s The Mystic Heart and also based, to a significant degree, on his communications to many of us in his last years.
How does the interspiritual movement address or incorporate the diversity of global spiritual practices?
Such incorporation is a part of the very definition of Interspirituality—utilizing all the Wisdom Resources available to us and seeing them all as great gifts. We should view all these resources as a “grand buffet” from which we can choose any and all that serve us, and our fellows. As Br. Teasdale said, this is one of the unique circumstances of our time—all the Wisdom Resources and practices, from all of history, are on the table for us to utilize.
Further, the real test of the value of any of the spiritual practices available to us from this global spiritual “buffet” is how much each actually nurtures real love and real well-being—for all.
Who are some of the notable contributors to the two new volumes, and what perspectives do they bring to interspirituality?
From the pioneers of interspirituaitity we’ll have either major pioneers themselves or, since many have passed, those who worked closely with them and represent them today.
The Foreword is by Fr. Dr. Matthew Fox, the Afterword by Ken Wilber, along with leader-pioneers like Dr. Mirabai Starr, Dr. Andrew Harvey, and Dr. Ervin Laszlo we have colleagues of Thomas Merton (Dr. James Finley); colleagues of Fr. Bede Griffiths [Dayananda] (Fr. Matthew Cobb); colleagues of Fr. Thomas Keating (Dr. Ed Bastian, Dr. Rory McEntee, Fr. Adam Bucko, Rev. Cynthia Brix, Dr. Will Keepin, Swami Atmarupananda, Rabbi Rami Shapiro, Kabir, and Camile Helminski, Fr. Matthew Wright, Netanel Miles-Yepez; colleagues of Wayne Teasdale (me, Rev. Jeff Genung, Dr. Rory McEntee, Vishnudatta, Dr. Gard Jameson), from Interspiritual Education, pioneer Rev. Dr. Diane Berke; persons from The Parliament of the World’s Religions, the Earth Charter Commission, the Charter for Compassion, and many more, along with a large group of international indigenous elders.
You can watch for the volumes In later 2024 at all online booksellers and https://www.lightonlight.us/).
